I want to be able to begin projects that can be completed while I am offline. If I am forging a chain mail coif, I want to be able to halt the progress without losing it (I set the coif and rings aside) and continue work on it later. If I set it my character to a task, I want him to continue to work even if I am not watching it, even at a decreased speed, and time off for the character to rest, but it will continue until I return or the coif is complete.
This is definitely part of the plan, though we're loosely placing these under the "Training" (you set your character to train a stat or skill and then do other things while waiting for him to complete) and "Minions" (where you cultivate a crew of followers that do all sorts of tasks for you while you're away-- even battling baddies in search of that missing item you need).
So, I just wanted to update on a new game I've been goofing off with for some time, to give some feedback on what I like and dislike about the game. I'll leave the name of the game out of the discussion, unless Wiz is interested in knowing.
But I've been playing a game, where like most games you battle stuff, and get loot. But the interesting feature in the game is that there isn't an "energy" system that limits what you can do in a time frame. You can fight as much as you want.
How they limit it, is that you get a container of loot at the end of the mission, and it costs keys to open. You get another key every like 1 and a half minutes. The higher level the mission, the more keys it takes to open.
BUT this container of loot, is just extra loot (Granted quite a bit more then you'd get from even running the mission like 4-5 times). You get a small amount of currency, and the occasional piece of loot from each enemy you beat. So you can continue to grind or play when you are out of keys. The keys recharge at a very quick pace, and some of the drops the enemies have, are materials that craft only into keys.
I've literally sat down and played this game for like 4-5 hours yesterday while watching netflix (on my rare free day from responsibilities). And it was still fun to continue playing. I never once though. "UGH" I'm out of keys! Better stop for a few hours.
As a whole, the game isn't that greatly designed. No friends system, very basic crafting, but it is fun for passing the time.
I'm a decent bit of the way through the game, and have yet to think. "Gosh, things are taking so long, I probably need to shell out $$ to advance farther." Sure advancement has slowed down quite a bit, and I'm sure at the end game, it will be pay to win, I can already see it on the horizon.
tl;dr: They limit how fast you can progress through quickly replenishing keys. But allow you to continue to progress even when out of keys.
You feel accomplished when you log in, and use all your keys for quick rewards after not playing for a few hours, while allowing those who can't play as often to not fall to far behind those who play constantly. But still allow for faster progression for those who are hardcore players, without having to spend money on that progression.
They call me the Crier. No, I don't cry a lot. I deliver news you uncouth barbarian.
Can we also get a few things to do that don't require "energy" to play. The trademark of most mobile games is temporary playing like Clash of Clans, after you start building, can't do anything the rest of the day.
Perhaps there can be no limit things available for playing while one waits for other things to finish?
Arena is part of the plan, @Xeru and so it's stated-- there is no plan for "energy" mechanics in this game. Minion missions and asynchronous Training of your character take time, but they don't stop your play. You can keep trucking through PvE (grind all you like) or take on opponents in PvP (dominate all you like) to your heart's content.
@darggie I like those ideas-- the keys replenish, but they don't stop gameplay and it stores up some fun for when you return. We're planning to try and accomplish that quick check-in thrill via missions for your followers, but keep the ideas coming as we roll out details...
@TheWizard I definitely will, if you any specific things you are interested in me looking into or checking out, let me know and I'll see what I can find out.
They call me the Crier. No, I don't cry a lot. I deliver news you uncouth barbarian.
Well @Darggie, I'm interested in what that system triggered in you-- sounds like it's a good thing. And it sounds like it was motivating. Is that accurate?
But more then that, is it didn't really punish me for playing to much, or to little.
If I didn't log in for a day or so, I could use all my stored keys (which the limit of increased only through playing, you couldn't purchase a high cap to keys). But if I had 3 or 4 hours to just burn through, it didn't punish that by being unplayable like many games either.
I've played a lot of games that have enough to occupy you for like 30 minutes, then that was it, you couldn't really do anything for 4 or 5 hours while you waited for energy or whatever to refill.
They call me the Crier. No, I don't cry a lot. I deliver news you uncouth barbarian.
I did hear a counterpoint last week that you should react to. The person I was talking to said that a mobile game needs some energy mechanics to tell you when it's ok to stop playing. The explanation was this-- that if you can only do so many things within a game, the player feels good (he used the word "good") that he has to wait-- that he feels as if he did his bit, and the game is moving on without him, and that it will be ready when he gets back, but he doesn't NEED to keep playing it.
@TheWizard as a side note being a worker as i sure most people are i do very different shifts i'm not a big fan of mobile phones and at work there are quite strict with there use any how so when i do get to play i like to choose how long i play for i don't mind a little wait but i also what to be able to catch up with the people that may have an easier time coming and going and i don t necessarily want to pay for it. not sure how you go about balancing it but heh your in charge so that's down to you .....
I did hear a counterpoint last week that you should react to. The person I was talking to said that a mobile game needs some energy mechanics to tell you when it's ok to stop playing. The explanation was this-- that if you can only do so many things within a game, the player feels good (he used the word "good") that he has to wait-- that he feels as if he did his bit, and the game is moving on without him, and that it will be ready when he gets back, but he doesn't NEED to keep playing it.
React to that for me...
I feel like the game I played with the Keys situation still fit that criteria. You use all your keys, that's all your major speed and advancement until they refresh and regenerate.
As a player, you knew that it was unlikely you would be able to progress much more until you got the keys. The difference is, it didn't lock you out of playing.
The best analogy I have for this is say you're whole job is to transfer the water from one pool to another pool.
You get access to the water pump for 5 minutes every hour. After those 5 minutes are up, you can't use the generator, but you can use a cup to keep moving the water. You'll make a little progress, get to keep doing what you've been doing. But clearly you know that you're at a stopping point that won't put you far behind anyone that stops until their water pump is recharged.
They call me the Crier. No, I don't cry a lot. I deliver news you uncouth barbarian.
This just popped into my brain but, what about a potential Cloud for people to attach/download/potentiallyplaymaybe from via PC/Mac. IE, you'd attach via USB into a Browser Cloud or have a downloaded program(Future, future idea sure but still one) And with it, people could potentially play via their computer, or download via computer, mainly download I imagine or at least store and rotate files maybe.
Just an idea for either those who want to use their faster download speeds of their PC/Mac to enhance any updates that might come in or just take advantage of the wonders of a Ethernet connection, and then not have to worry about losing data
Speaking of Data, is the Game Data for Paragons stored in device, on a Cloud, or a mix of the two?
I don't feel "good", I feel cheated. Give me an option to pay you moneyz and then leave me alone to play the game when I want. I don't have time to fart around with energy bars and whatnot.
So, @Finjinimo & @Talin, are all energy mechanics things you don't want to "fart around with," or have you seen them done in a way that kept you engaged?
And I'm making a distinction here between energy (which once out of, you can't do something) and time-based (e.g., Minion Missions will play out in real-time, but don't stop you from doing anything else in the game).
I'm fine with time-based because I get to make a decision about it. Do I chose this mission that will take my minion 4hrs to do, or do I chose this mission that will take him 48hrs... I have a say in that and therefor I'm ok.
I don't like it when I've taken the time to spend on a game, and then it just says "no, gimme money or bugger off for a few hours"
Yep, got it. And I will report on those systems as they get blessed so that we can tear them apart and discuss and you can yell at me. Right now, it's just Minion Missions (as @Finjinimo outlined) and Training that have those mechanics baked in. And the idea behind those is to let you feel the world working even when you're not playing-- rather than stopping you from anything. The Character-- your Character-- is central and should be yours to interact with as you please.
Caveat: Events will probably have some time elements (e.g., you have 2 days to take a crack at the Evil Henchman, or whatever).
The only mobile game I've really gotten into and actually enjoyed for a while, is Brave Frontier.(Not sure if you've ever played it.) Felt like they really established a collection based game, it has great unit advancement, and evolution. But the lore felt cheap. I'd love a game that had lore that felt immersive, so that I don't feel like I want to tap my screen as fast as I can to skip it. It should make me want to read it. I'm more of a Pc/ console gamer, so I'm used to making choices and seeing something happen.
I can't say I'm much of a fan of the click and wait hours for things to get done....Let me put it this way. If I'm playing a game I don't want to feel like "the game" is telling me to stop playing because I have to wait for things to get built. If I want to binge and play for hours I want to be able to do so.
Understood, and good feedback. Time will tell if we deliver some interesting lore for you, but we're not being lazy about that, I can assure you. You know from the past, that I'm a (borderline problematic) sucker for the Lore...
I desire a storyline depth that isn't played in a day and done and then everyone spams multiplayer. All MMORPGS are so multiplayer centric, that they have kinda lost the art of telling and playing a good player story. Compiling that with an evolving story of online play as well but, I feel that perhaps the games 'tutorial' mode could be reserved for a single player, offline mode that people start with. It would be like a mini beta of sorts. I feel a true RPG should still be an RPG first, and an MMORPG second. Mission spamming and such can come but, the good ole days of the base game story that leads you to current day, constantly evolving Paragon I feel would be interesting.
I am so late to this thread, but just in case I thought I'd throw out my 2 cents. I like what Talin and Darggie had to say. A game where I can set my character/minions to do something while I am offline and I can rely that those things will be done when I come back is awesome. I've been messing around with various clicker games recently and while they completely lack any semblance of story or unique progression, they do a fantastic job of "Well, I haven't logged on for a while, but dang did I get some resources while I was out!"
And on the idea of an energy limited action system, I very much prefer the way WoW and other MMO's have done it (and the game system that Darggieo mentioned) Give me the ability to progress more quickly after not playing for a while, but please for the love of all that is fun, don't STOP me from progressing when I'm 'out' of whatever resource regenerates over time. That just makes games feel like a chore "Oh, I need to check in on my game in order to get any benefit out of today..." That just leads to not playing for a couple days and then wondering if I should bother because I've fallen behind others who were playing those days. If Instead I just get bonus quick resources for not playing then on a rare day off or insomnia night I can make an effort to progress, even if that effort isn't maximally effective due to spending such a concentrated amount of time playing.
I wish I had a mobile game that... - HD hand drawn graphics - Mixed farming, dungeon crawling and relationships (Stardew but more RPG) - Cash store was strictly cosmetic
Comments
I'll SMITE you
But I've been playing a game, where like most games you battle stuff, and get loot. But the interesting feature in the game is that there isn't an "energy" system that limits what you can do in a time frame. You can fight as much as you want.
How they limit it, is that you get a container of loot at the end of the mission, and it costs keys to open. You get another key every like 1 and a half minutes. The higher level the mission, the more keys it takes to open.
BUT this container of loot, is just extra loot (Granted quite a bit more then you'd get from even running the mission like 4-5 times). You get a small amount of currency, and the occasional piece of loot from each enemy you beat. So you can continue to grind or play when you are out of keys. The keys recharge at a very quick pace, and some of the drops the enemies have, are materials that craft only into keys.
I've literally sat down and played this game for like 4-5 hours yesterday while watching netflix (on my rare free day from responsibilities). And it was still fun to continue playing. I never once though. "UGH" I'm out of keys! Better stop for a few hours.
As a whole, the game isn't that greatly designed. No friends system, very basic crafting, but it is fun for passing the time.
I'm a decent bit of the way through the game, and have yet to think. "Gosh, things are taking so long, I probably need to shell out $$ to advance farther." Sure advancement has slowed down quite a bit, and I'm sure at the end game, it will be pay to win, I can already see it on the horizon.
tl;dr: They limit how fast you can progress through quickly replenishing keys. But allow you to continue to progress even when out of keys.
You feel accomplished when you log in, and use all your keys for quick rewards after not playing for a few hours, while allowing those who can't play as often to not fall to far behind those who play constantly. But still allow for faster progression for those who are hardcore players, without having to spend money on that progression.
Can we also get a few things to do that don't require "energy" to play. The trademark of most mobile games is temporary playing like Clash of Clans, after you start building, can't do anything the rest of the day.
Perhaps there can be no limit things available for playing while one waits for other things to finish?
Arena comes to mind for this option
@darggie I like those ideas-- the keys replenish, but they don't stop gameplay and it stores up some fun for when you return. We're planning to try and accomplish that quick check-in thrill via missions for your followers, but keep the ideas coming as we roll out details...
I'll SMITE you
I'll SMITE you
That's pretty accurate.
But more then that, is it didn't really punish me for playing to much, or to little.
If I didn't log in for a day or so, I could use all my stored keys (which the limit of increased only through playing, you couldn't purchase a high cap to keys). But if I had 3 or 4 hours to just burn through, it didn't punish that by being unplayable like many games either.
I've played a lot of games that have enough to occupy you for like 30 minutes, then that was it, you couldn't really do anything for 4 or 5 hours while you waited for energy or whatever to refill.
React to that for me...
I'll SMITE you
not sure how you go about balancing it but heh your in charge so that's down to you .....
As a player, you knew that it was unlikely you would be able to progress much more until you got the keys. The difference is, it didn't lock you out of playing.
The best analogy I have for this is say you're whole job is to transfer the water from one pool to another pool.
You get access to the water pump for 5 minutes every hour. After those 5 minutes are up, you can't use the generator, but you can use a cup to keep moving the water. You'll make a little progress, get to keep doing what you've been doing. But clearly you know that you're at a stopping point that won't put you far behind anyone that stops until their water pump is recharged.
This just popped into my brain but, what about a potential Cloud for people to attach/download/potentiallyplaymaybe from via PC/Mac. IE, you'd attach via USB into a Browser Cloud or have a downloaded program(Future, future idea sure but still one) And with it, people could potentially play via their computer, or download via computer, mainly download I imagine or at least store and rotate files maybe.
Just an idea for either those who want to use their faster download speeds of their PC/Mac to enhance any updates that might come in or just take advantage of the wonders of a Ethernet connection, and then not have to worry about losing data
Speaking of Data, is the Game Data for Paragons stored in device, on a Cloud, or a mix of the two?
So, @Finjinimo & @Talin, are all energy mechanics things you don't want to "fart around with," or have you seen them done in a way that kept you engaged?
And I'm making a distinction here between energy (which once out of, you can't do something) and time-based (e.g., Minion Missions will play out in real-time, but don't stop you from doing anything else in the game).
I'll SMITE you
I don't like it when I've taken the time to spend on a game, and then it just says "no, gimme money or bugger off for a few hours"
Caveat: Events will probably have some time elements (e.g., you have 2 days to take a crack at the Evil Henchman, or whatever).
I'll SMITE you
I'm more of a Pc/ console gamer, so I'm used to making choices and seeing something happen.
I can't say I'm much of a fan of the click and wait hours for things to get done....Let me put it this way. If I'm playing a game I don't want to feel like "the game" is telling me to stop playing because I have to wait for things to get built. If I want to binge and play for hours I want to be able to do so.
I'll SMITE you
mind me if I worded this weirdly
And on the idea of an energy limited action system, I very much prefer the way WoW and other MMO's have done it (and the game system that Darggieo mentioned) Give me the ability to progress more quickly after not playing for a while, but please for the love of all that is fun, don't STOP me from progressing when I'm 'out' of whatever resource regenerates over time. That just makes games feel like a chore "Oh, I need to check in on my game in order to get any benefit out of today..." That just leads to not playing for a couple days and then wondering if I should bother because I've fallen behind others who were playing those days. If Instead I just get bonus quick resources for not playing then on a rare day off or insomnia night I can make an effort to progress, even if that effort isn't maximally effective due to spending such a concentrated amount of time playing.
- HD hand drawn graphics
- Mixed farming, dungeon crawling and relationships (Stardew but more RPG)
- Cash store was strictly cosmetic