In any good role-playing video game, there are a bunch of elements working together. If you had to choose, what would you place the most importance on?
Character Development and Story/Lore are hard to split apart for me. They go hand in hand, if a game is lacking in either I'm not likely to spend much time with it.
As a D&D player, the most enjoyable part is starting a character with a very loose background. As you play the character, it develops it's own unique style and personality. You get to write the story for each character, and learn the background, personality, and mind of each one with every battle, every conversation, every roll of the dice.
I've played under multiple Dungeon Masters who had very different approaches. Some focused a lot of combat and battles to keep things interesting, and others have had 6 hour long sessions entirely out of role playing without any combat.
Both were exciting experiences, that developed characters more then imaginable.
They call me the Crier. No, I don't cry a lot. I deliver news you uncouth barbarian.
Story is a close second, but there's one too many games where I've sat through bland and frankly dire stories if I've liked the characters, to justify putting it first.
...although I am a sucker for a crafting system.
"Now remember kids- If you don't use environmentally friendly technology, a giant technicolour inter-dimensional ghost squid will come down from space and eat everybody."
Interesting... so to clarify, I'm taking about character development in terms of spending time thing about their persona, their stats, their abilities, etc. That change anything for you guys?
Interesting... so to clarify, I'm taking about character development in terms of spending time thing about their persona, their stats, their abilities, etc. That change anything for you guys?
Nope, that's exactly what I'm looking for!
They call me the Crier. No, I don't cry a lot. I deliver news you uncouth barbarian.
It's ALL about the grind to me. If it becomes meaningful based on my character's choices and the plot presented before him/her-- then I'm just that lucky.
Interesting... so to clarify, I'm taking about character development in terms of spending time thing about their persona, their stats, their abilities, etc. That change anything for you guys?
Still pretty much what I was going for.
As an aside, I'm also a sucker for equipment that's visible on the character. Now, if only that wasn't such a monumental amount of effort to implement.
"Now remember kids- If you don't use environmentally friendly technology, a giant technicolour inter-dimensional ghost squid will come down from space and eat everybody."
This is a super hard choice for me, but for a videogame I have to vote combat. Story is all well and good, and character development too. But if the gameplay of the game is dull or lacking, then I'd rather read a book and I have a very good chance of giving up and going to read the story on the game's wiki.
Now all that to say that an interesting world will grab me faster than anything, in just about any medium. From RPG Systems (Numenera's The Ninth World and The Strange are two I love, The Strange in particular is begging for a TC supplement, I think...) to Books (Warhammer40K Grimdark through the Steampunk/Darwinism of The Leviathan Trilogy, all the way to the Tolkein/Rothfuss/Sanderson mythology level worldbuilding of the Greats) through TV shows and Movies (GitS, Blacklist, the consistency of the MCU, all fantastic world building). If you can grab my interest with the lore of the world, you've earned my loyalty and a space in my memory, though perhaps not my game playing time (I love the stories that come out of EVE, but I don't play the game myself).
So grab my attention with the Lore, keep it with the Combat (super important in a game), and then hand me an opportunity to make meaningful choices* for my character on top? I love it. Thats the recipe for my long term investment in a game/world.
*and I mean friggin meaningful here. None of Skyrim's "You're the Archmage now!" run into a wizard, at the mage's tower, which you are now theoretically in charge of, and get a "who the !#$( are you?" in response. That stuff is cute, and fun, but its all window dressing and not very meaningful except for the loot. (AKA worth my time once)
Definitely character development. This is the aspect of gameplay I think about when I leave the keyboard. Character development is what drives most of the decisions I make in an rpg and what keeps me motivated to finish that next level or play another hour. How much stronger can I make my character? What abilities will I unlock on the next level up? Can my team beat the other guy's team? These are questions I seek to answer while playing the game and planning my characters, the battles themselves are simply validating (or invalidating) whatever I thought the answers were.
The combat mechanics can be autonomous, turn based, real time, whatever. As long as the game gives me the feedback I need to determine if my planning was effective and there are enough interactions during combat, I'll be engaged through character development. That, and if there is always something new over the hill for me to master or break the game with.
The combat mechanics can be autonomous, turn based, real time, whatever. As long as the game gives me the feedback I need to determine if my planning was effective and there are enough interactions during combat, I'll be engaged through character development. That, and if there is always something new over the hill for me to master or break the game with.
For the record, I agree that good combat can be automated too, as long as it has good feedback. The Dominions Series and Ogre Battle are some examples of an automated battle system I've enjoyed in the past.
As an aside, I'm also a sucker for equipment that's visible on the character. Now, if only that wasn't such a monumental amount of effort to implement.
As an aside, I'm also a sucker for equipment that's visible on the character. Now, if only that wasn't such a monumental amount of effort to implement.
We're doing that.
Have I ever told you how much I love you guys? Because I do. I love you guys.
"Now remember kids- If you don't use environmentally friendly technology, a giant technicolour inter-dimensional ghost squid will come down from space and eat everybody."
Interesting... so to clarify, I'm taking about character development in terms of spending time thing about their persona, their stats, their abilities, etc. That change anything for you guys?
With that clarification I need to explain a little. For me it is all about my character. From genesis through advancement. So I would have to add storyline and PvE as it pertains to my character advancement and development.
doc
"Come on in stranger and have a drink....mind your boots on the floor"
That's fair, Doc. And you'll get both-- I was hoping to get exactly what you guys are sharing here: some insight on what about these things appeals to you.
For additional clarity on Paragons, the super-early-initial idea was to create something that distilled a bunch of the tasty bits we all love about big MMOs and CRPGs into something that you can spend 15 seconds advancing in or hours upon hours (as we've all been known to do). To be able to pull your phone out, gunsling some fool, advance your character, find some traysure (<-- not a mispelling) or send your minions off to do your bidding while you're doing other things is the idea.
It will be part of this crew's challenge to give you that sense of character development (and, importantly, creating an emotional attachment to your character) that you've gotten from other games you love.
A robust community and storyline will lead to that emotional attachment.
Agreed. Most quick combat games like it sounds you guys are shooting for try for some cheesy storyline to get you invested, and a basic outline of the world and some good lore are great, but if you give the players the proper tools to build a real community then the emotional attachment will be built on its own, I think.
Additionally, if you want to motivate that attachment, don't be afraid of game changing decisions being made. Riot Games recently pulled a stunt where they "killed" a character through in game lore. That pissed a lot of people of (rightfully so in some cases, as they had spent real world dollars on skins for him), but then they brought him back through lore, just a little changed. I understand why they didn't really remove him from the game (As I said, real world dollars were riding on his existence) but it would have been a really cool Lore moment for a prominent character to be written out of the game, instead they re-worked him and built a Lore event around it, still kind of neat, but it could have been handled better.
A robust community and storyline will lead to that emotional attachment.
Agreed. Most quick combat games like it sounds you guys are shooting for try for some cheesy storyline to get you invested, and a basic outline of the world and some good lore are great, but if you give the players the proper tools to build a real community then the emotional attachment will be built on its own, I think.
Additionally, if you want to motivate that attachment, don't be afraid of game changing decisions being made. Riot Games recently pulled a stunt where they "killed" a character through in game lore. That pissed a lot of people of (rightfully so in some cases, as they had spent real world dollars on skins for him), but then they brought him back through lore, just a little changed. I understand why they didn't really remove him from the game (As I said, real world dollars were riding on his existence) but it would have been a really cool Lore moment for a prominent character to be written out of the game, instead they re-worked him and built a Lore event around it, still kind of neat, but it could have been handled better.
It's hard to officially kill off or remove something that money has been spent on. You make a lot of enemies that way.
They call me the Crier. No, I don't cry a lot. I deliver news you uncouth barbarian.
@Darggie@Finjinimo Yeah, It wasn't the best way for them to go about things. For Riot the better solution would have been to chronicle a huge fight the character got into and then remove him from rotation temporarily while he 'recovered.' Then his reworked reveal could have been him entering a fight to turn the tide, etc. etc. Or at least thats how I would have handled it.
For Paragons, we haven't yet invested, in fact very little has been written on it as of yet. So I bring this up as a "consider the future, and don't be afraid to try something big but that something big needs to be planned a little in advance"
Maybe it's just my hyper-medium awareness, but I instantly assumed he'd turn back up at the end of the event.
...although I hadn't been reading the lore very diligently, and first assumed it was an amusing way of saying he had a crippling bug.
"Now remember kids- If you don't use environmentally friendly technology, a giant technicolour inter-dimensional ghost squid will come down from space and eat everybody."
@Drakythe Yes, my comments about 15 seconds is about the building blocks of the experience-- we're trying to create something you can have a meaningful experience with in a short time (using one of these building blocks like a battle, an upgrade, a story bit or a loot drop), AND allow those blocks to work together in such a way that you can sit down and play for a long time if you like.
Although Battles individually will be very quick, we'll string those together in PvE into interesting multi-Battle quests and in PvP, we're experimenting with things beyond just "you and I go at it for 1 Battle." Think rivalries, House matchups, or an ongoing vendetta against a particular player.
On the lore/story event side, we're hoping that separates Paragons (which is a working title, btw-- stay tuned for our copyright adventures) from other mobile titles. We're (@SingmeAsongand I) are literally working on that today. Events and game-world-changing lore happenings is a definite goal, so keep up that opining... <-- is that a word?
In an RPG the story and lore determines a lot when I'm creating and developing my characters. I like to be able to sit and just read lore when I can't play. Like star wars, D&D, ect...
This is a very interesting question as if I asked if you had a plate of food what would be the most important ? Meat,potato,veggies,sauce? For me its a little of each as the idea is that it all complements each other . If a book is interesting then I will read it until I finish it in as short amount of time as possible because I want to know what happens. If a TV series takes my interest(the walking dead,s.o.a,breaking bad,g.o.t)then I go back for more again because I want to see where its going and what happens.a good story has good characters In the past I spent real money on equipment,characters because I like collecting it all having one of everything and it also helps with progressing through the story ,arena and quests but it also needs to be balanced as I also feel that ftp should be just as competitive.
Being able to develop a character along the lines I desire, not a cookie cutter design. I want options, I want to be able to grab bits and things across multiple classes if it fits the personality and history for the character I design. Blandly handing out new titles and ranks is not interesting. I want to feel the accomplishment, not just boom, you've been promoted.
The lore of the world will spark my interest, and adds greatly to the play experience.
PvE next. Some folks don't like a lot of PvP combat. There is always someone with more time, money, or gear who is going to walk all over you given the chance. Having to avoid them all the time can become a pain. Making PvP optional, localized, or reasonably avoidable is a plus.
Loot is okay, but I love to play crafting characters and add to the playing experience of others. Being able to develop into such skills and not sacrificing too much enhances any game for me.
PvE next. Some folks don't like a lot of PvP combat. There is always someone with more time, money, or gear who is going to walk all over you given the chance. Having to avoid them all the time can become a pain. Making PvP optional, localized, or reasonably avoidable is a plus.
I agree with pretty much everything Talin said, but I wanted to emphasize this. Optional PvP is really a must for me. I don't mind competitions (High scores, speed runs, etc) but in combat oriented games I regularly get destroyed due to work/life commitments meaning someone else will happily destroy me. Whether its just a checkbox (Enable/Disable PvP) or whatever, optional PvP would be greatly appreciated.
Development of your character is very important in a rpg. I don't like it when every wizard is built the same way, because someone figured out the perfect way. I like it when there's no perfect characters. Everyone is very different and play very different ways. Jack of all trades and experts of a certain skill.
TheWizard
Posts: 838 Wizard
10 votes
4 votes
36 votes
12 votes
8 votes
3 votes
Comments
As a D&D player, the most enjoyable part is starting a character with a very loose background. As you play the character, it develops it's own unique style and personality. You get to write the story for each character, and learn the background, personality, and mind of each one with every battle, every conversation, every roll of the dice.
I've played under multiple Dungeon Masters who had very different approaches. Some focused a lot of combat and battles to keep things interesting, and others have had 6 hour long sessions entirely out of role playing without any combat.
Both were exciting experiences, that developed characters more then imaginable.
...although I am a sucker for a crafting system.
I'll SMITE you
As an aside, I'm also a sucker for equipment that's visible on the character. Now, if only that wasn't such a monumental amount of effort to implement.
Now all that to say that an interesting world will grab me faster than anything, in just about any medium. From RPG Systems (Numenera's The Ninth World and The Strange are two I love, The Strange in particular is begging for a TC supplement, I think...) to Books (Warhammer40K Grimdark through the Steampunk/Darwinism of The Leviathan Trilogy, all the way to the Tolkein/Rothfuss/Sanderson mythology level worldbuilding of the Greats) through TV shows and Movies (GitS, Blacklist, the consistency of the MCU, all fantastic world building). If you can grab my interest with the lore of the world, you've earned my loyalty and a space in my memory, though perhaps not my game playing time (I love the stories that come out of EVE, but I don't play the game myself).
So grab my attention with the Lore, keep it with the Combat (super important in a game), and then hand me an opportunity to make meaningful choices* for my character on top? I love it. Thats the recipe for my long term investment in a game/world.
*and I mean friggin meaningful here. None of Skyrim's "You're the Archmage now!" run into a wizard, at the mage's tower, which you are now theoretically in charge of, and get a "who the !#$( are you?" in response. That stuff is cute, and fun, but its all window dressing and not very meaningful except for the loot. (AKA worth my time once)
The combat mechanics can be autonomous, turn based, real time, whatever. As long as the game gives me the feedback I need to determine if my planning was effective and there are enough interactions during combat, I'll be engaged through character development. That, and if there is always something new over the hill for me to master or break the game with.
-Mr Seige
I'll SMITE you
doc
For additional clarity on Paragons, the super-early-initial idea was to create something that distilled a bunch of the tasty bits we all love about big MMOs and CRPGs into something that you can spend 15 seconds advancing in or hours upon hours (as we've all been known to do). To be able to pull your phone out, gunsling some fool, advance your character, find some traysure (<-- not a mispelling) or send your minions off to do your bidding while you're doing other things is the idea.
It will be part of this crew's challenge to give you that sense of character development (and, importantly, creating an emotional attachment to your character) that you've gotten from other games you love.
I'll SMITE you
Additionally, if you want to motivate that attachment, don't be afraid of game changing decisions being made. Riot Games recently pulled a stunt where they "killed" a character through in game lore. That pissed a lot of people of (rightfully so in some cases, as they had spent real world dollars on skins for him), but then they brought him back through lore, just a little changed. I understand why they didn't really remove him from the game (As I said, real world dollars were riding on his existence) but it would have been a really cool Lore moment for a prominent character to be written out of the game, instead they re-worked him and built a Lore event around it, still kind of neat, but it could have been handled better.
Killing off player-characters and investments sounds like they didn't really think that one through.
Yeah, It wasn't the best way for them to go about things. For Riot the better solution would have been to chronicle a huge fight the character got into and then remove him from rotation temporarily while he 'recovered.' Then his reworked reveal could have been him entering a fight to turn the tide, etc. etc. Or at least thats how I would have handled it.
For Paragons, we haven't yet invested, in fact very little has been written on it as of yet. So I bring this up as a "consider the future, and don't be afraid to try something big but that something big needs to be planned a little in advance"
...although I hadn't been reading the lore very diligently, and first assumed it was an amusing way of saying he had a crippling bug.
Yes, my comments about 15 seconds is about the building blocks of the experience-- we're trying to create something you can have a meaningful experience with in a short time (using one of these building blocks like a battle, an upgrade, a story bit or a loot drop), AND allow those blocks to work together in such a way that you can sit down and play for a long time if you like.
Although Battles individually will be very quick, we'll string those together in PvE into interesting multi-Battle quests and in PvP, we're experimenting with things beyond just "you and I go at it for 1 Battle." Think rivalries, House matchups, or an ongoing vendetta against a particular player.
On the lore/story event side, we're hoping that separates Paragons (which is a working title, btw-- stay tuned for our copyright adventures) from other mobile titles. We're (@SingmeAsongand I) are literally working on that today. Events and game-world-changing lore happenings is a definite goal, so keep up that opining... <-- is that a word?
I'll SMITE you
The Continuum Veteran
Youtuber/Live Streamer
Meat,potato,veggies,sauce?
For me its a little of each as the idea is that it all complements each other .
If a book is interesting then I will read it until I finish it in as short amount of time as possible because I want to know what happens.
If a TV series takes my interest(the walking dead,s.o.a,breaking bad,g.o.t)then I go back for more again because I want to see where its going and what happens.a good story has good characters
In the past I spent real money on equipment,characters because I like collecting it all having one of everything and it also helps with progressing through the story ,arena and quests but it also needs to be balanced as I also feel that ftp should be just as competitive.
The lore of the world will spark my interest, and adds greatly to the play experience.
PvE next. Some folks don't like a lot of PvP combat. There is always someone with more time, money, or gear who is going to walk all over you given the chance. Having to avoid them all the time can become a pain. Making PvP optional, localized, or reasonably avoidable is a plus.
Loot is okay, but I love to play crafting characters and add to the playing experience of others. Being able to develop into such skills and not sacrificing too much enhances any game for me.